The Fifth Dimension
Beyond the Veils of Illusion
Brendan joins Evan McDermod to cut through the veils of illusion — covering consciousness as the root of creation, awakening to the nature of reality, and moving from fear to empowerment.
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[0:02] Welcome and Introduction
Evan: All right, everybody, welcome into the Fifth Dimension podcast. For today's show, we have a return guest, long overdue in my opinion. I am joined by the one and only Brendan D. Murphy, freedom hacker, truth addict, author of The Grand Illusion, host of the Truthiverse podcast. And if you guys haven't listened to that, highly recommend, one of my favorite programs. So, Brendan, it's such a pleasure to be able to reconnect, man.
Brendan: Yeah, thanks, man. Nice intro too.
Evan: Thanks. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And I figure we can just kind of dive right into it. No softball questions. I know you and I are in the same boat on that one.
[0:42] David Icke's The Trap and the Nature of Reality
Evan: Dive right into the conversations. And you know what's funny is I was reading David Icke's book, and I know you had him on your podcast. I had him on mine a couple of years back as well. I was reading The Trap, one of his, not most recent book, one of the more recent ones though. And when I was reading that, it actually made me think of your work in particular and some of the conversations that we had.
And I don't know if you've read his book, The Trap, or not, but to kind of give a little bit of a summary, it's about sort of the illusionary nature of the reality that we're living in. And it gives a very good overview of this matrix reality. And I think it's important for, a lot of times we look at what's directly happening in front of us and we're very reactionary. It's like, oh, we see this take place, see this take place. It's very easy to react, but I don't know if we always get that bigger picture of, what is this reality? Who are we? And from there, I think we can start to address some of the things that we're seeing.
Don't mind the cat coming into the picture here. But I was wondering if you could start by maybe talking about what you feel is the root of the Matrix system, if you will. Who are we within that? What is this that we're actually going about day to day taking part in and creating, whether consciously or unconsciously, right? I was wondering if you could start there because I think that's the root of a lot of the work that you're doing.
Brendan: Yeah, it is, man. And you've kind of gone right for the jugular with that, too.
Evan: What I like to do. What can I say?
Brendan: Yeah. And I think he had another book after that, I think it was The Dream or something. I haven't read either of them, but somebody sent me because this keeps coming up, right? A lot of people have adopted the idea that we're in a trap or a reincarnation trap. And they sometimes will use bits and pieces of maybe Icke's material or other people's material to support that idea. And somebody sent me like six pages where it was out of that book and relevant to it. And I've read through it and I was like, oh, yeah, it's not really, there's nothing too persuasive there if you're really trying to make the case for a trap.
So my question has always been from day one, when I had my awakening experience, which was triggered by a book, which was followed by a direct conscious, expanded consciousness experience, which supported and anchored in the theory of the book that I'd previously read. So my interest has always been, what is the nature of reality? What is the nature of consciousness? And what I have always understood since I pursued the investigation. The answer to those two questions is exactly the same.
So I empathise with anybody who puts forward the theory that we are in a kind of a dream world, because essentially, that's essentially correct. You just have to understand that there is, if you like, deeper layers of who we are, deeper layers of consciousness that are projecting this holographic dream world so that we can then inject ourselves into it to participate as these little, human characters in the video game, so to speak. And do that for our own reasons.
[4:05] Taking Responsibility and Withdrawing Energy
Evan: What would you say is the dream? And how did we get to this point of being in such a, because we look at the state of the world and there is a lot of darkness, people aren't wrong when they react and say there's a satanic death cult coming for to enslave humanity at the root, right? How did we get to this point when we are, ourselves, the conscious creators of this? And how can we start taking some responsibility for that as well?
Brendan: Well, I think the responsibility thing is a good question because that's lacking in the discussion, right? So I'm glad you're putting that on the table, which is good. And that's what people really need to move into because if you're not taking ownership of it, if you're not taking responsibility of it, then you're probably in that reactionary place. You're probably triggered a lot. You're probably pretty pissed off with the state of things. And whilst that's understandable at a certain level, it's also completely useless and unhelpful.
Because what you're doing is you're looking at a system which you're a part of and you're pumping any form of judgment, any form of emotional content whatsoever feeds into whatever it is that you're observing. So if you don't like the thing or if you love the thing, it doesn't matter if you're paying attention to it. You are supporting it energetically at a foundational structural level. So this is what we're doing.
And a lot of people, what we need to do is we need to move past the basic awareness stage of what seems to be happening at the level of the play, if you like, and actually understand, okay, well. This is a dream. We are creating it. And we are feeding energy into anything we pay attention to, whether we like it or not. So into the field, the information field, is our responsibility.
And the way that we start to take control of things, not that we have control over those things, so to speak, but the way we start to influence it in a useful way is to firstly disconnect and disengage from it emotionally. And then essentially becoming different to the things on an emotional level. So you can still be aware of it and you don't have to like it. You don't have to like it at all. But as long as you're in the non-reactionary place, you're not pumping more energy into the thing.
So that's one of the things that we have to get past, this whole moral outrage, which is completely understandable. Like when people start to realise, oh, there's a satanic death cult in charge of things. It's like, wow, this is horrific. Of course, we don't even have words for some of the horrors that are unfolding as we speak. But being constantly outraged and angry and pissed off about it is actually holding the thing energetically in place at the level of, what we call the quantum field, that's what we're doing there.
So we've got to start kind of pulling back a little bit. If you want to change something, then you need to move it to the opposite end of the spectrum, which is more in the realm of inner peace, joy, love, gratitude, all of this stuff, because then your frequency output into the field does not support those things. And the more people, the more people gather together in that kind of framework, the less energy is being pumped in to support it. And the cat is nodding. I can see the cat nodding, so it agrees.
Evan: Absolutely.
Brendan: Oh, yeah. She tends to agree.
Evan: There's a reason her and I saw her at the shelter one day. I said, that's the one right there. That's the one.
Brendan: She knows.
Evan: She knows.
[7:44] Political Saviours and Technology
Evan: But. And to go off of what you're saying, it's interesting because you kind of answered what my next question was within your own answer. Finding a level of almost emotional indifference is kind of the place I'm at personally. It's a nice place to be in where it's like, I see some of these headlines or these ideas or what people are reacting to in the news cycle nowadays, and it's like, okay. Yeah, that makes sense. This makes sense. This makes sense. You can kind of see it unfolding, but it still feels like to me, and especially here in America, we're still very caught in the left versus right news cycle. There's going to be a political saviour.
I'd like to think there is this, I do think there is a global rise in levels of awareness, certainly, to at least the nature of who is behind the curtain, if you will. But at the same time, I'm not 100% certain we're past the reactionary, emotional phase, if you will. And like you're saying, maybe that's a necessary step to have a global, oh my God, a global outrage. But in the same sense, I can see exactly what you're saying in that we're kind of almost feeding it.
And if anything, some of the reported saviours, and I would love your thoughts on this, because I know this is an area you've explored as well. It feels like some of these people who are painted as saviours through the outrage, the Elon Musk type, they're also at the same time ushering in the beast system through artificial intelligence, through technological innovation, right? And these, instead of the solution being rooted in nature and a returning to who we are, it's much more of, here's more technology. Here's a chip for the brain. Let's connect you to the cloud. And we'll save you from these demons, but we ain't going to tell you about the ones that we're bringing in, right? So I don't know. I feel like people are still very much in the saviour programming and they still lack that extra step of responsibility.
Brendan: Yeah, I think we're trained that way from a young age to look to the external authority. And it starts with the family. You can't help it. You've got mom and dad. They're these godlike imposing figures. They tell you what to do. They seem to be omniscient, omnipotent. And it's like, that sows the seed, that plants the seed for what comes down the track. And then unfortunately, you know, the system we have, these guys have mastered mass mind control and manipulation. So they understand the psychology of how to control the masses and manipulate the masses and steer them in a certain direction.
And yeah, unfortunately, we're still stuck in that, the emotional. Pointing the finger. And if you're still pointing the finger, you're probably pointing a finger at that guy, that's the devil. And this guy here is the angel or the saviour. So you're very much stuck in this dualistic kind of, a lot of people are cheering on, RFK Jr. And I'm like, I don't care anymore. Yeah. It just doesn't matter to me what is happening in the political theatre because ultimately, the only way meaningful change is going to happen is within the individual who disconnects from that whole system of emotional harvesting.
[11:16] Thought Forms and Mind Viruses
Brendan: And it's not like a lot of it is simply, this is something nobody talks about, is a lot of the flip side of what we can see with our eyes is the invisible side of it, which is like this informational software kind of program that runs, like we, you know what a thought form is, right? And so there's these system structures that become kind of like entitised, they become entities, and that is running in the background in itself. And that has its own life. It takes on its own imperatives. And firstly and foremost, it wants to survive and it wants to recruit more people into the belief system because it needs more energy, wants to harvest more energy. So they're kind of like these mind viruses.
And that's the side of it that nobody sees. And so we're kind of metaprogramming a lot of what's going on at that level energetically, informationally, by participating in these games, in these systems. And even if you hate it, you're still stuck in it because you're feeding it energy. So the emotional disconnect that you were talking about is really foundational. And then that will help people to then focus on their own lives and get their own s*** together. Because right now we have a plague of people who are really outraged, but not looking at their own lives and not taking responsibility for that. And it's like, if you really want to experience positive change, don't wait for the political system to bring it to you, because you're going to be waiting a while. It starts at home.
[12:37] The Political System and RFK Jr.
Evan: Right. I was going to say, I don't think the political system is capable of bringing any sort of change that we're actually looking for. I mean, it's very much built on the same, you know, the same emotional reactivity and outrage that we were just talking about. That's what the political system is. So to expect a meaningful change from that, we're wasting our time, right?
I'm the same thing with RFK. You know, he had some interesting ideas when he was being first pushed and promoted a little bit, you know, and that's as early as 2020. I remember really seeing him being, he's pushing the alternative media, if you will, at the very least. And sure enough, now he's the leading political candidate for that alternative framework, right?
Let's provide a political solution for these people who are discontented.
So I'm right there with you, and it's interesting because when we look at, I think, I guess a lot of people, what I've found stumps people is getting to the level of, well, how can they, how could this be taking place, how could people be operating from this low level of consciousness?
Do you think it could speak to... My personal opinion is the people who are behind the curtain on this and really holding it together and pushing the agendas, they're not of the same moral framework as you or I. They don't operate on that same emotional bandwidth.
Could you speak to who these people are, and do you believe they are... Steiner talks about them as the Ahrimanic Forces, right? Fallen Angels, if you will. Is this like a sub-human type of entity or what?
How would you describe the people who are, not even people, the forces that are behind a lot of the, I guess, pushes that we're seeing in the mainstream and agendas?
Brendan: I really think it's a mixed bag. On the one hand, we talk about Satanists, and we know that there are networks of these covens that are very much involved in the manipulation. If you listen to any ex-Satanists who've come out and blown the whistle, Mark Passio is one example. There are heaps of other people who've come out of the system, whether they were high-level Freemasons or whatever. They'll tell you that there's this satanic influence, these people who really do have that completely different moral framework.
Their whole mentality is to manipulate and exploit. They actually really get off on the apparent stupidity of the masses. [section omitted] So there's that element to it.
And I think there's also potentially others that are not necessarily based in an earthly framework. That opens up a whole huge can of worms, and it just gets ridiculous because you can get sucked into this whole evolving Star Wars, Star Trek, space opera, astral space opera thing in the background that people have experiences that they, I say ostensibly, are real experiences, but may not be happening in the way that they necessarily think are happening, like may not be a physical world level experience. Some of it is definitely physical world level experience, but there is also an interdimensional crossing of the barrier and the border happening at the same time.
So you ask who's controlling and who's manipulating, and I think it's a mixed bag.
[16:25] Thought Forms and Withdrawing Energy
Brendan: And ultimately, the one thing that nobody talks about is that we are feeding, we are creating these thought form entities at the informational energetic level of the field. And then we play these games where they, because they, anytime you have a system like the political system, it is ruled by these overarching sort of entities, these thought form constructs that we humans created ourselves by building the belief system and then feeding energy into it.
It's like any religion or whatever. The medical system has its own religious sort of belief structure, so people go and participate in it. And as they enter into it, it is then influencing them even more so to continue to reproduce the same kind of thoughts, to continue to feed out the same kind of energy into the field that reinforces the informational thought form structure so it can continue to grow and get stronger. So there's that level of it, too, which is really largely an unconsciously driven thing.
And again, we feed it by paying attention and by getting morally outraged or whatever information energy we're feeding into it, that has to be neutralised. We have to take that out of the equation and start at least becoming indifferent. I would say that's one of the first steps. And then if you want to influence something positively, then you need to feed coherence into it, love, gratitude. Anything along those lines will start to create a field effect that will not support the structure that you are not particularly fond of.
Evan: Right. Yeah. And it's interesting because I think this, what you're talking about, us feeding into it, it almost reminds me of the nature of a parasitic entity, like parasite in a way, because it only survives with our own... It feeds off of our energy. And by the extension of that, it also starts to almost take over our own individual autonomy and ability to think outside of the frameworks that it is installing into us and programming into us, right?
Because eventually, the nature of the parasite is to have that total, complete takeover to where there is no escaping from that type of thought form and that type of way of thinking. And that's what, when I look at certain technologies like Neuralink or connecting the brain to the cloud, that's what that feels like, where you voluntarily give up your ability to free think and create outside of this matrix that we've created with our thought forms, right? That's what it feels like. And it feels like what we're moving towards. And to me, it almost feels like that's an inevitability for some people to live within that framework. So continue to uphold that parasite.
But at the same sense, maybe the solution isn't going to be from taking that down, but more so just letting it go, walking away, creating a parallel structure to where we don't need to feed into that.
[section omitted] In the same way, I don't think there's going to be one moment where we look back and say, oh, that's how we defeated the parasitic system and truly found freedom, right? It almost feels like a slow journey over time that individuals have to take on as opposed to having this large-scale collective revolution. And I'd be curious your thoughts on that. That seems like the only way for me.
Brendan: Yeah, that was a good summary, I think. People, because of course the appeal is in the quick fix, the solution, everybody just wakes up and we tear the system down. But the thing with these types of systems is they have so much more firepower behind them that you can't go into a direct conflict with them because they will squish us like bugs.
But like we've been saying, like you said, withdrawing energy from them is really the only way forward. And that applies on a macro level and on an individual micro scale level as well. If you don't like something in your life, withdraw energy from it and move on. If you get caught up being triggered about it, you feed it, you keep it alive. It's a cliche, but it's a true cliche. What you resist persists.
It reminds me of, if you've ever seen a punch-up in Australian rugby, what happens is you get these two massive built guys, one of them grabs the other guy's jersey and starts punching him like this, and the other guy grabs the other dude's jersey and starts throwing punches, and it's like, I'm hanging on to you. I'm trying to make you go away, but I'm punching you and holding on at the same time. It's a conflict. We're at cross purposes, right? So it doesn't work. We have to actually stop being in energetic conflict with the thing in the first place. That supports its dissolution so we can replace it with something better.
[21:53] How to Start Looking Inward
Evan: Yeah, absolutely. How would you say, or what do you think is the key to go back to what we were talking about at the beginning, of consciousness being at the root of who we are, for somebody to decide, all right, I'm going to take this advice here? I'm going to try and stop feeding into the fear, the reactions, the mind control programs in that way. And I'm going to try to emotionally detach.
Those things take time. I think there's still things within the system that are going to cause emotional triggers. We can work all we want, but we're programmed in such a way that it's more about recognising when emotional triggers come up more so than trying to eliminate them.
But what do you think is a good first way for people to really start to dig inside of themselves to start uncovering some of the truth about consciousness being the root of creation, seeing beyond the illusions, seeing who they are beyond just the role that they have come to know within this matrix system? How do people start doing that?
Brendan: They could take up meditation. Yeah. Meditate. Yeah, meditate. Take some interesting psychedelics under proper circumstances. And see where it leads you.
Ultimately, that's one of the biggest issues we have, people get stuck in that identity level of I'm my body. I'm Evan McDermod. I'm just this physical being. I'm just the thoughts that I think and the beliefs that I have. And then that's just this little tiny, tiny little container, this tiny bubble. And if you become habituated to that as your identity, then you're going to probably be stuck there for a long time because the belief system dictates what kind of experiences your consciousness is going to have access to.
So ultimately, firstly, you have to loosen the shackles around your mind a little bit and open up just intellectually, if nothing else, emotionally, and just be like, okay, well, maybe I'll get a bit curious about this. Maybe I can get a bit curious. And then if you're curious, things are less threatening, things are less intimidating. And you can take it a little bit further as you're ready, as you let your defences down and realise what it is that you're defended against. What are you armoured against? Why? Dig into all that stuff. Why are you so resistant to exploring the nature of reality? Why are you so attached to the idea that Jesus is the saviour? Whatever it might be, what is driving that there?
Because it's never an intelligently thought out, consciously chosen thing. It's usually an emotional reaction based in trauma from way back. And so we've got to work through this crap. And if we don't work from that level, these basic kinds of things, these basic steps that we take, it's very difficult because nobody can impose externally a higher consciousness on somebody else.
Unless you're in a relationship with a guru and you're working really closely together, those guys have the capacity to influence their students at a telepathic level. Right. But beyond that, we have to do the more mundane, boring work of opening our minds, working on our shadow s***, deal with our stuff. Why are we so triggered easily? All this stuff. Because those things are actually where the gold is. If you notice you get triggered by certain stuff and you pull on that thread, you can take yourself deeper into yourself and start to unravel some things.
And then when you become more healed, when you heal these types of wounds, naturally your defences start to drop. You become more open. You become more receptive. You start to see things you maybe never saw before. And you can have experiences you never had before. But if you stay in your little armoured bubble, resistant to everything, then you don't have much shot.
[25:43] Vipassana and the Absence of an Endpoint
Evan: Right. Absolutely. And it's interesting because I did one of the 10-day Vipassana retreats back in October, where you sit in silence for 10 days, you're completely disconnected from the world, and there's nowhere to run, right? You can't actually run from your internal thoughts, your programs, they're all right there on display for 10 days straight, and it's very... It's fascinating to see where the mind goes in places like that.
And even the internal resistance that we create in meditation practices, even in sitting with ourselves and the stories we'll create about certain emotions or we think we've got something solved. And it's like, all right, well, what if I pull the thread a little bit deeper? What if I, in the Vipassana retreat, I ain't going anywhere else. You got to keep exploring.
And it's interesting because now from that experience, I can see the benefit of, say, a prolonged meditation, when you're sitting there for a while versus maybe just 10 to 15 minutes a day, right? There's going to be a much deeper level of experience that you can reach. But I think a humbling part of that experience, too, is recognising there is not really an end goal. There isn't actually an endpoint that you reach in terms of the internal unravelling and self-discovery because as soon as you think you understand it, you're stagnating yourself. It's like, oh, there's nowhere else to go from here? All right, I'm done. And then you create a blockage of whatever else you're supposed to go.
And that's really, I think, what you're talking about, where the gold's found. It's when you think you have it figured out and then you realise you were totally wrong. It's like, oh, oh, okay.
So look at the larger picture here, I think that's where a lot of people might be in terms of, oh, I see the deception. That's where it's at. This is where we fight. This is the hell I'm willing to die on. And there's a nobility in that. And it's like, okay, you see it, but let's go a little bit deeper, right?
I think there's a beauty in that self-discovery process.
Where does your own personal self-discovery and exploration of self leave you, I guess, looking at the bigger picture, beyond even just this life? Something I've been trying to make a point of is getting the deeper why, or asking what's the point behind certain things. So what's the bigger why here? Why is it that people, if we're bigger than our bodies, for example, and we're a soul, why is the soul here? What's the point of all of this? Why are we even going through such a rigorous, painful, trauma-filled school of discovery on Earth, if you will?
I think the knowing that we are much bigger needs to be rooted in something deeper. I don't think you can ever fully get the full why, because there's going to be levels of mystery to it. But what have you found about yourself, and what grounds you in the knowing that you are something much bigger than just Brendan Murphy, for example?
[28:58] Infinity as the Container
Brendan: Yeah, I was, in a sense, fortunate that right at the beginning of my journey down this path, I had that altered state of consciousness spontaneously where I suddenly experienced infinity, infinite consciousness. From that level of vastness, the sheer vastness of what we are, because it's not just me, it's what we are, right? There's this infinite field without time and space, nothing to do with any kind of dimensionality. You can call it the infinite void if you want to. It doesn't really bother me what kind of words we throw at it. The point is that we are that vastness, that timelessness, that eternity, that eternal thing that is no thing. And so that's my container. My container has always been infinity. And then whatever happens inside infinity, it's like, well, okay.
In meditation, you mentioned meditation. I spent the first two years of my 20s meditating quite a lot. And it's like you said, there's a big difference between sitting down for 10 minutes or 15 minutes versus... Because I would listen to a CD that would take me through certain brainwave states, but it would go for an hour and 30 or 40 minutes, right? So that gave me enough time to get into a very deep place. And I had some very profound experiences doing that. And you can't do it in just five or 10 minutes, unless maybe you're incredibly proficient.
Evan: Right.
Brendan: Yeah. I guess we can't put that limit on somebody. If you can do it, great. Awesome.
[30:33] Why Infinite Consciousness Dreams Itself Into Experience
Brendan: But yeah, so my container is infinity. And then it's like, okay, well, if we are this kind of non-physical field of consciousness, we have no limitation. We have no discomfort. We have nothing but this incredible immense bliss and peace. And that's our eternal state. Where do you go from there? What does a field of eternal infinite consciousness do? Well, it may dream different forms of experience to have. Maybe it dreams itself into different types of modes of being so that it can experience an unknown and evolve itself, in a manner of speaking, through going through the unknown.
It's like, imagine you go to sleep at night and you go, okay, what kind of whacked out s*** can I dream tonight? And I'm going to make up this bizarre, surreal fantasy world. And then I'm going to dream myself into it as the character Evan McDermod. And just see what happens, and see how we go. And so hopefully I'll make it out okay at the end, but it's okay because there will be an end to it and we'll have an awakening and I'll remember, oh, this is what I really am. It was just a dream. So using that analogy, we can extrapolate that to a much grander scale, I think.
In a manner of speaking, that's the summary of 20 years' worth of studying a lot of different related fields like near-death experiences and the life-between-lives material, which is a very extensive database. And you look at people's DMT experiences and all sorts of entheogens, and it basically tells you all the same stuff at the end of the day. So that's kind of what it boils down to.
[32:13] Is Reincarnation a Trap?
Evan: Yeah, and I agree with you completely. I do think a topic that is gaining some traction is that idea of reincarnation being a trap. Do you think it's a trap, or do you think that upon death there is just a remembrance of the nature of who we are and we choose to come back here voluntarily and it isn't some sort of soul-sucking, harvesting type of, you know, we're tricked and deceived into coming back here, but it's more of a choice and free will.
Brendan: Yeah, from the beginning, as an infinite being, how do you trap infinity? It's impossible.
Evan: Right, right.
Brendan: You can dream a dream while you're asleep and think that the character in the dream is you. And you might feel like you're stuck in the dream. You might feel like you're not having the best time ever.
Evan: Yeah.
Brendan: But at the end of the day, you put yourself in it to have an experience. Nobody forced you in there. Nobody forced you and held a gun to your head and said, have a dream and have an awful one and I'm going to make you stay in there and if you come out, I'll blow your brains out. It doesn't work.
And when you dig into that, and I've written about this on my website and Substack, and there's a little bit of an insight into some of what's actually coming in the next couple of books that are going to be published, right? Because this is kind of where it's all about. People have such tiny reference frames for discussing these types of ideas. And unfortunately, there's been a lot of disinformation as well. People who have claimed to have had near-death experiences and then said things like, oh yes, it's a trap, based on their supposed near-death experience. But then we find out they actually didn't have a near-death experience at all. And they're just making up a bunch of garbage.
And then people are latching on to this stuff in a state of victim consciousness to begin with. So what is somebody who is unconsciously identified with victim going to do? What are they going to do? They're going to gravitate towards the most disempowering, limiting material to reinforce their victim identity. And that's what I'm seeing over and over again. But if you do the kind of deep research I've been doing for 20 years, and really get deep in it, you realise there's actually very, very little evidence to support that thesis or conjecture. I just call it an idea or a meme. It's really nothing. It's fluff.
But for people who are relatively new to the realm and they're just starting to wake up to the different layers of whatever you want to call this, the different layers of the dream, you really have to go to the foundations of it, the fundamentals of who and what we are. And from there, you can't be a victim from infinity, from that point of view. You just can't do it.
[35:01] PMH Atwater's Case Study and the Soul's Purpose
Brendan: I'll give you a specific example. One of the best near-death researchers is PMH Atwater, Pamela Atwater. And she's published a number of books about it. One of her standout case studies that I know, excuse me, I've got a hair. One of her really standout case studies was a woman who had been born into a generational family of Satanists. So from the day she was born, she was horrifically abused. And she had 17. And essentially death experiences, near-death experiences. She had 17. She was so traumatised that she would leave her body and be able to then access levels of information that were not available normally under normal circumstances, right?
In a nutshell, what this woman concluded was she basically had all these revelations about why she was there in that life, why she came into her family and what the purpose behind that was. And it turns out in her case, it was a benevolent choice to incarnate into that family. I don't want to bastardise it too much, but it was to create a spark in the hearts of those people because they were so disconnected. They were so just embedded in the trauma and the programming. And her job was to come in as this little vulnerable baby and create that spark.
In the process, she was obviously massively abused and traumatised, but after she'd had all those experiences and time to integrate it, she let go of any kind of resentment or victimhood or what have you, because she saw the bigger picture of why she was there in the first place. And it was a conscious choice on her part.
And this is the thing, we can use the word soul or spirit or whatever you want to call it. It doesn't really care about the experiences that the human avatar has, in the long run, because it knows that it is the real us, and it is immortal. It is not going to be harmed by anything. It can't be harmed by anything, right? So as much as we have experiences we don't like and we get traumatised and all this sort of stuff, the soul has its own reasons for undertaking the journey in the first place. And unfortunately, from our perspective, it doesn't necessarily care that much about how much the human might suffer in the process. But again, in the bigger picture scheme of things, the suffering serves its own purpose because it leaves us, at the end of the day, in the long run, it leaves us different, dimensionally fleshed out and more. Let's just say multidimensional and more evolved in the long run than we would have been otherwise, because now we've gone into the unknown, we've gone into the dream, and we've had these experiences that were not possible otherwise, and through being able to play these characters.
I just look at the whole thing and go, well, a field of infinite consciousness can't help but produce infinite versions of reality and infinite beings and an infinity of experience, massively diverse experience. So what else is it going to do? What other options does it have? An eternal being, except creating different permutations of itself?
[38:14] Frequency and Self-Fulfilling Prophecies
Evan: Right. Absolutely. That's about as good of an explanation, I think, as you can get to understand how our own frequency is going to attract to certain stories about what the soul is and the purpose of the soul and what this reality is. Because I understand where people are coming from when they say this is a soul trap. This is it. Reincarnation. Look at this hell that we're continuing to be brought into. But when you get back to the foundation of it, who are we? How do we create our reality? You know what? Maybe your frequency is, that is what you're creating. Maybe it is a trap for your continual reincarnations because that is where you continue to feed into, right? And so we kind of almost always create these self-fulfilling prophecies that wherever our energy is at, that's what we're going to create. So like I said, as good of an explanation, I think, as you can get to really unpack at least what the nature of the soul is and the nature of this reality is.
[39:24] Control Structures and the Manipulation of Perception
Evan: Would you say it's safe to say that the curators of the systems and reality, and I even hesitate to use the word the system, because I don't think there is no one system. There's different various bodies of systems, and there's an elite group of people, certainly. But the people who are at this little top of the pyramid, and I think they are very few and far between, they have this understanding on the nature of reality. Is this something that is because they understand how we feed into the reality loop? The systems are designed so that it's very difficult to break from that and it's very difficult to understand the true nature of the soul. Is this something that's taken into account within our daily lives unconsciously and we're feeding into it without even a thought to the true nature of who we are? Is that what this is all built upon? A deception?
Brendan: Yeah, that's right. It is. It's this whole manipulation of perception. But I think there are very, very few people in the control structure that have any level of real awareness.
Evan: Yeah.
Brendan: And you could argue that there is, if you like, a sort of dark... People who are, I don't like this language, but people who are not of the light, so to speak, and who are perhaps aware, people who have consciously chosen to walk the left-hand path and be manipulators and abusers and really long-term big-picture control freaks. And do it consciously with a certain level of metaphysical awareness of what they're doing and how to go about manipulating the perception, deception, all this stuff. I think there's a very small number of those types of people.
The rest of the people in the different systems are overwhelmingly unconscious, overwhelmingly unaware of the fact that they themselves, even while they harvest the benefits of being enforcers of the system, the more supporters of the system, they are chewed up and spit out left, right and centre. [section omitted]
A number of them are either dead or they're in hospital having very serious work done because their health has just fallen to pieces, right? [section omitted] Just as an example, these people are, I think, regarded as useful idiots by people who are higher up the food chain.
But even those people higher up the food chain, I think for the most part are manipulated by the entity itself, the informational thought form structure that humanity has built and continues to pump energy into. And if you go into the system as one of the drones in it, it takes an even stronger grip over the mind and really steers it even more vigorously, because you can't go in there and be like, ah, f*** the system. Let's tear it down. You will get smashed. It will select people who are going to be supportive of it, who are going to be manipulated by it. And it's mostly an unconscious process.
So I think that to me is what most people don't acknowledge, that most of what goes on is the result of this unconscious dynamic. The information field structure has more than one system. Like you said, it's not just one big, overarching, neat control structure where there's a beautiful pyramid. It's much messier than that. It's much messier.
We have the human earth organism. We have the human thought field. And then that is itself the super system, which is embedded in even larger super systems like the solar system and the galaxy and whatever. And then you drill down and you drill down and you realise there's all these different little subsystems, these different little nodes of activity that are different. And some of them are competing against each other. But as long as they don't challenge the nature of the parasitic overarching control structure, they'll be supported, as long as the control structure unconsciously can utilise them and they can unconsciously benefit from it.
But as soon as the system decides, oh, this guy's inconvenient or he's not going to get the job done now, they will just kind of magically be replaced and someone will magically. A lot of this is kind of law of attraction stuff, but we need to start looking at it more in terms of information fields and physics. Even though it gets speculative, because at that level of the quantum field nobody really knows what's going on, right? So we just use these ideas like the quantum field and entanglement and non-locality and synchronicity because we're noticing patterns showing up. And a lot of this is just synchronistically occurring without any conscious direction.
So we're kind of all running towards the edge of the cliff, including most of the people in the control structure. They're marching towards the edge of the cliff going, oh, look at me. I've got billions of dollars. I couldn't be more comfortable. And they're three steps shy of walking off into the air. But this is it.
[44:44] Waking Up and Finding Community
Evan: Yeah, absolutely. And, I think it's one of those things where I almost wonder if mankind needs to have that moment where they're standing at the edge of the cliff and it's like, oh, this is how close we are. Okay. Because other than that, it is the blind leading the blind, and people are going to continue to feed their, I would say, delusions of what they're used to, so long as it's there and they don't feel the absolute need to have another solution or another option.
I think a lot of the people who have waken up, I mean, there's the spontaneous awakenings and there's things of that nature, but a lot of times it comes through. There's no other option. There's pain, there's hardship, there's trauma. You see through it. There's no going back once you've seen it, right? And it wasn't necessarily that we chose to stray from the herd, necessarily, but it's like, okay, I see the truth and now I'm going to. I don't want to move towards the cliff. I don't know where back the other direction goes, but it ain't the cliff.
It's like the lone wolf. Why does a lone wolf become a lone wolf? It isn't necessarily meant to stay one. It's looking for another pack. It's looking for another group that is actually more in alignment. And we'll help it survive, because we can only be a lone wolf for so long.
Brendan: Yeah.
Evan: Which I think is why, I know you're not in Mexico now, I think a lot of people are starting to gravitate towards finding community. That seems to be a phase that we're in. I think more people are consciously striving to create this community, whether it's in online spaces or whether it's in person. But to me, that feels like the next step, if you will, especially if people are starting to feel a bit more aligned within themselves and they want to find solutions. I think it comes from, all right, well, let me find the others. Let me find the people who are supporting these values.
And one person putting a thought out there is going to, okay, that makes a difference. But two people acting on the same thought form, acting on the same idea, okay, that's double the amount right there. You get four, you get eight, you get however many people. That's going to create conscious change. And I think there's a way to do it without needing to be down with the system type of people. You don't need to actively oppose. You just need to consciously create. And then that will naturally draw energy away from other systems without it being an act of resistance, I would say.
[47:39] The Maharishi Experiments and Withdrawing Energy
Brendan: Totally. And the thing is, right, the proof of that concept is in the Maharishi experiments, where a tiny, tiny handful of people can meditate together. So they share a conscious intent, they go into a coherent state, and then they can influence the crime rates of an entire city, like millions of people. And this is repeatable. It's measurable. The crime rates where they've done this experiment plummet. They plummet when they're meditating. And that's it. They're not running around with baseball bats trying to hit crooks over the head. They're not fighting anything. They're not fighting anything.
They are withdrawing energy from the dualistic, like the drama of the dynamic. They're withdrawing their energy from those software information systems that want to harvest the energy. They're not fighting crime. They're just going into coherence and focusing as a group.
I haven't been able to verify this yet, but apparently there was a scientist who found that one person joining the first person in their conscious intent, say meditating, that second person actually multiplies the energy by seven times. Every time someone joins the group, you get this exponential kind of S-curve effect where it becomes insanely more powerful. And that's why so few people can influence millions of people at once. And that's what the elite, elite manipulators understand and know.
So that's why they keep feeding us the same garbage they do, because most people keep falling for it and keep paying attention and keep pumping energy into it in the form of outrage or fear. And we ended up just, we're just undermining ourselves. But if you withdraw the energy, go into coherence, focus on what you do want, the system over here that you don't like starts to wither and die because you're not feeding it anymore. And every person who withdraws energy helps to take the system down without fighting the system. It's brilliant.
[49:35] Division and Finding Common Ground
Evan: Right. Absolutely. And I think we really need to go beyond the identification with our avatar and the differences, the perceived differences that exist between one another. I mean, it seems like over the last four or five years, I've just watched the infighting, the groups, the divisiveness. It's like we find ways to overcome it, but then a new division pops up, a new divisiveness pops up, a new group. All right, let's target this group. Now this one, now this one. Oh, let's make these two people go against one another now, right? There's always a new storyline that is pitting people's fears against another group of people.
It's like once we get over the, oh, you know what? Maybe it wasn't these people over here. But then there's a new story of, oh. Oh, okay. Right now, the Jews are the big thing, right? And Zionism is a real ideology that people should understand and look at. But again, there's the religious dogma of, all right, let's pit the Christians against the Jews and they'll throw radical Islamists in there who attack the capital of Moscow and this and that. And so you get these continual repeated stories over and over and over again as enough time passes to get people to continue to fight one another, right?
And it's like the second we decide, all right, I'm done with this. I'm done. I'm not feeding into the perceived division. You realise how illusionary it is, right?
Brendan: Yeah.
Evan: And force-fed it is down our throats just as a byproduct of keeping people apart, because you see what people can do in numbers, like you were saying, even small numbers. I think that was the reason for all the social distancing and all, keep people inside, keep people away from one another, you know?
[unclear]: That's exactly, that was the purpose behind it. Right.
Evan: So I think if we can disconnect from the need to be divisive, then that's a huge turning point.
[unclear]: Right. Yeah.
Brendan: Yeah. I mean, if we could just focus on the things that we have in common, it's incredible. We can see differences, but I mean, that's a very primitive part of the brain that's looking for differences and scanning for differences. And you get, oh, well, your skin's darker than mine, so you're an inferior being. And it's just different flavours of that kind of theme. But if we look for what we've got in common, I mean, we all breathe the same air. We all bleed. We all bleed red.
And at the end of the day, if we just stand together in the energy of what we want to create from a place of creativity and free of the fear and free of the division and free of the egoic need to impose your will or control people or control things and harvest their energy, I mean, you can do amazing stuff, man.
[52:24] Self-Mastery and Responding Rather Than Reacting
Evan: Yeah, absolutely. It's so simple that people aren't used to thinking about things in terms of simplicity. They're thinking in terms of everything out there looks so complicated and so messy. How are we ever going to solve this? I guess, you know, maybe we'll vote for the next guy and he'll fix it for us. Well, how's that working out?
Brendan: Right, exactly.
Evan: But the simplicity is in taking care of oneself, almost taking conscious control of our own, view it as a loop in a way, right? We have a feedback loop with our surroundings. And if we can program ourselves, and this is to use the language of programming, I don't know, that the system uses itself, we can program ourselves to have certain, because I think in a way, we're always going to have responses. We're always going to have things that we're unconscious of, of how we respond to things. So we can train ourselves to respond in the way that from a space of resonance, from love and expansion, then naturally we're going to create that around us.
I think it is about coming down to the root in those unconscious responses and retraining those, because intention's nice and being virtuous and being non-divisive and being responsive when things are right in front of us and we have the opportunity to think about it, it's actually pretty easy, all things considered. But it's about in those moments of when you're really being pushed and there's that instinctual moment. How do we actually respond? Because a lot of times that's, I think, the thing that really makes the biggest impact. It's that life or death, fight or flight response type of scenario where it's like, okay, how we respond to now, that's what's going to make or break us.
So I think the training of the mind and the coming back to oneself continually now prepares us for that moment. And it's like the idea that meditation prepares us for death. That's what people have said. I've heard that idea a lot. If we're preparing for death, there's nothing in life that's truly going to phase us in a way. It's like, oh, okay. We're not going to be taken aback. So, I don't know.
Brendan: And yeah, I would echo what you're saying about responding, and responding to things is completely different to reacting. Reacting is automatic. It's triggered. It's based on your programming. It's based on your wounding. But if you respond, you're coming from a conscious place. It's an intentional place. And that's the difference. And so while it's a simple concept to actually master, the process definitely takes work. And you want to be, I would suggest, I would encourage people to be obsessed with that. Be obsessed with, because that is the path to self-mastery, taking the unconscious and making it conscious, so that it can be intentional and responsive instead of reactive. That's the path to self-mastery.
So the more you can look at yourself as, you're in a video game. The video game's kind of been designed for your higher self or whatever you want to call it, so that you can ultimately be challenged in ways that benefit you in the long run, so that we're not here thinking we're supposed to be comfortable all the time and we're supposed to avoid being challenged and what have you. We can embrace meeting the challenge and dealing with the challenges and the disappointments and all the vicissitudes and whatever, but doing it from a place of responsive intentionality instead of what usually comes out, which is victimhood and pain and drama and grief and woe is me.
And that's understandable a lot of the time, like the normal human reactions to someone ripping you off is to be angry about it. But you can't wallow in it. You can't, because then you're playing the game. You're feeding the system, that system of that dynamic that you're feeding it. So then the more you feed it, the more it controls you. And then the more you attract similar systems to bring you similar types of experiences. And you don't want to go down that downward spiral. Again, indifference, cultivate the sense that you're just in a video game, you're a video game character. The game's designed for your benefit in the long run. It's not designed for your constant comfort.
And then just work from there. Cultivate responsiveness and that dispassionate, just be the observer of whatever's going on. Even if someone's yelling at you, abusing you to your face, you don't have to be reactive to that. You don't have to take it personally. It's got nothing to do with you. It's just their s*** and you can just move on.
Evan: Exactly. And if somebody is abusing you to your face and in your face, laughing at them will bring a great response. It will throw the other person off. It will not necessarily destroy their negative energy, but that's how you diffuse those types of situations. Give them a smile, you laugh and say, "Ah, that's very interesting. Thanks for saying that," because people expect you to feed their...
Brendan: Anger.
Evan: They expect you to feed. Because that's what we're all so programmed to do. That's what people are used to. And the second somebody decides not to feed that, that's where the other person is thrown back. And it's like, okay, wait a minute. What am I doing? Who am I? What is this? So it gets people out of their own emotional feedback loops, right?
Brendan: Right, right. And I completely agree. It's a great thing to raise because you're talking about a pattern interrupt to a system like that person who's in your face, really angry, aggressive, triggered, whatever. They represent a dynamic, an energy dynamic. And the other part of that coin is for you to either play the victim and go, woe is me, or to respond with rage and anger. Either way, whatever you do, you're now playing the game of the system that they are a part of. So you're joining into the system.
I'm reading a fantastic book about this, playing this game called Reality Transurfing. And this guy actually gets it at an informational field level, and very few people do. He throws a few great ideas of how to throw that pattern interrupt out there because, like you said, that person in that situation is expecting one or two responses and that's it. Anything outside of that expectation completely takes the wind out of their sails and they don't know what to do with it.
He gives one example of a guy who was faced with a really angry bunch, like a gang. He was completely outnumbered. He felt like he was about to be beaten to death. And so his only choice in that moment, instead of meeting them at the level of their dynamic, was to suddenly start acting like he was completely psychotic and crazy. He said something about ripping the guy's ear off and eating it or whatever. But just doing something like that is completely out of the realm and unexpected, and completely saps the energy from that dynamic.
Evan: You collapse it.
Brendan: Yeah, exactly.
[59:21] Small Choices and the System
Evan: And I think that's a good way to look at the large-scale issues that we're facing collectively. A lot of these large-scale issues, it's interesting, because I don't think people... The only place people meet them is in their one-on-one interactions. It's in what's taking place within their community. It's in the conversations. How many people can honestly say, I have interactions with the system, the government? The government's not a person. It's an entity, right? So you encounter the government and the system through the smaller-scale interactions, right?
So I think it's about what we're talking about. It's about having the awareness to not respond in a certain way or react in a certain way in our conversations, in how we choose to go about our career, the choices we make, the purchases we make, where we're getting our food. All of these perceivably small factors are what encompass the system as a whole. And so if we want to buck the trend of the system, it's bucking the trend within our small choices and within our small interactions.
And I don't think people always realise, it's almost cliche to say in a way, every choice counts and your choices are what's going to actually cause change and create change. But in terms of the energetic level, it's actually the only truth of it. It's the only way to go about it. That is reality. And so there's a lot of empowerment in that.
And I think we need to go from a space of fear and a feeling of being confined or trapped. And I think that's where a lot of what we were talking about, like the reincarnation trap, for example, even within spiritual circles, people are feeling trapped and disempowered by a lot of what's taking place, right? And for good reason. It's meant to make people feel disempowered. It's a valid reaction, a valid response. But we need to go from that to a space of I am infinite and eternal and therefore I am empowered. What's going to stop me? Even death? Shrug his shoulders. Meet death, greet him, shake his hand. And then even that becomes the perceived response that we have and the system has to death. It's like, oh, okay, we'll buck the trend there too. And that's true change.
That's true. I don't know. There's a deeper level of truth there once we actually start to unpack it and go head on into it, because I think that's where we're going to find our solutions. A lot of people want to snap the fingers, it's all solved, but I don't think that's a reality beyond just showing up, making the choices, doing what we got to do.
[1:02:17] Practical Empowerment and the Truther Trap
Brendan: Totally, totally. And be practical, like you're suggesting, be practical about it. Look at what you can actually do. What can you actually do something about? If all you've got is a tiny little balcony, a metre by metre, what pot plant can you grow there? You may not be able to set up a cornfield or something, but you can grow something somewhere. Start taking ownership of your capacity, whatever your capacity is, even if it seems small, and start withdrawing your energy from the things that you don't want to support.
Enact what you can physically enact and support it with the right kind of energy behind it. So the energy of empowerment, not victimhood, not resentment, the energy of joy, gratitude, excitement, anticipation, whatever it is on that spectrum, and work from there, because then you're... Actions are supported by the correct energy and the correct energy is going to continue to attract more of the types of things you want to be attracting, instead of you distracting yourself and wasting your time and energy focusing on the things that you want to fight and tear down and whatever. It's useless. It's a huge distraction.
And opposing the system and waving placards around, it really feeds more energy into the system. I'm not saying that you should never go to a protest or something. There's a time and a place for people to gather. But on average, don't just do these things out of habit and unconsciously, pumping energy into the system. You want to be operating in a way that's a little more nuanced, a little more subtle.
And the empowerment is always internal. It always starts from there. It's never whatever the external situation is. If your situation doesn't seem great on the surface, the way to change it is to start noticing the things about it that you do appreciate, notice the things about it that you do value and like and that you're grateful for. And as you build that energy, you start to build a sort of momentum and a magnetism in the quantum field, whatever you want to call it, that then can pull more of that in and more of that in and more of that in.
And unfortunately, most of the truth or truther type community, they get stuck in the outrage and the disgust and the revulsion. And then they fixate on the things that disgust and outrage and revolve them, which, of course, brings more and more of this into their reality. And at some point, I've lived this. Evan, I'm not just saying this from a theoretical point of view. I've lived. I've done my time as a truther, as an activist. That's where I'd published my book in 2012. And then I went on this sort of weird activist truther kind of thing journey with Aimee. And we did Global Freedom Movement and all this stuff. [section omitted]
And at the end of the day... I realised that while some of that was worth doing and worthy, and the awareness is good to have, it's really where the energy you're operating in and the belief system that you have around it and the perception you have around it that's really key. And if you feel like you're being victimised by the pharmaceutical industry, then unfortunately that energy... goes looking for more energy of that nature and attracting more energy of that nature. So we have to be very mindful of the way that we pay attention to something. You can look at something, it's kind of a glass half full, half empty idea, right? But what are you choosing there?
[1:05:27] Identity, Fixation and Healing
Evan: Right. Absolutely. And the way we're looking at it, I think the way you framed that is perfect because there's a time and place to have the conversations about, they say, satanic death cult, right? We can't just sweep it under the rug and be all happy and bubbly and pretend that certain things are not reality. It's good to have the awareness, like you said, but if... If we're looking for it, we might end up just creating it for it to be there, right? We're going to feed it so that it sustains us.
It's like, I've been writing a lot of poetry over the last few years, and I notice in times of, let's use the example of heartbreak, get your heart broken, it's easy to fixate on that pain and write. I could go write you a poem on heartbreak within about a minute. It would be easy. Could feed it. Boom, let's go into it. But at what point do I make my identification as a creative, as a poet, as... I'm a heartbroken creative and poet and I'm nothing more and I'm feeding pain and trauma in order to feed what I think is comfortable and what I know as opposed to exploring deeper levels of creativity.
And I think it's the same thing with any sort of anything that we do. As soon as we're familiar and comfortable doing something and maybe that's... Thank you. Exposing the elite and exposing what's going on behind the curtain. The second you identify with it, that's who I am. It's what I do, right? I could, in theory, go create a whole brand on heartbroken poetry, but at what point do I want to leave the heartbreak behind and write a new story, right? It's the same thing.
There's a time and place to explore and I think learn and heal in certain aspects and grow and express the authentic truth even when the authenticity is rooted in the shadows or the pain. There's a level of healing and growth that'll come from that. But you kind of have to realise, okay, now it's time to integrate this and move forward. It's like a psychedelic experience. Integrate and move forward, instead of taking ayahuasca a hundred times and never integrating the experience, right?
Brendan: Yeah. And then you become an ayahuasca junkie, right?
Evan: Right. No, exactly. Same type of deal. So I think it's a fine line. There's no exact right way to do this. And I think we all have to venture too deep into certain waters at certain points and drown ourselves in our identification with something before we realise that's what we have a tendency to do. And it's part of the journey. I just hope we don't drown ourselves as a whole before it's too late.
Brendan: I don't know if it's ever truly too late, but.
Evan: I don't know. I don't know, man.
Brendan: Yeah. And look, the identity thing is really what it boils down to, too. I think everything you said there is really important. And I've noticed, firstly, the limits of your identity are the limits of your experience. They're the limits of your experiential creative capacity. If you believe that you are just this tiny little broke victim, nothing ever goes your way, unfortunately the reality field, the information field around you doesn't have much of a choice other than to continue to reinforce that. And your brain, your whole psyche, is wired to try to prove whatever it is you believe.
This is why it's so important to snap ourselves out of the hypnotic trance of whatever it is, because there are so many hypnotic trances going around right now. There are so many different ways you can be hypnotised and play this guy's game or this girl's game and be in opposition to this thing over here because we think this thing's better. We can support the Democrats against the Republicans and then all of this stuff just keeps us exactly where we are spinning our wheels and not moving forward in the slightest. So the identity and identification is absolutely fundamental. We've got to come back and start there.
The hardest people in my experience to help are generally the people who have had very, very difficult lives and who also have not managed to... alter their identity that they built through that difficult life.
Evan: Oh, absolutely. And that's hard. I'm not saying that that's an easy thing to do, right? Your whole system becomes automated to functioning like that and it becomes habituated. So it's unconscious. So it's not their fault in a sense. But at some point, if you want to have a different experience, you have to have some different thoughts and beliefs about things in your relationship to the reality field around you.
Brendan: Right, exactly. How long do we choose to identify the victim with the pain, with the trauma, with the hardship? And I've had Kathy O'Brien on the podcast a couple of times, and she's a great example of anyone, I guess, who's not familiar with her, a survivor of the MKUltra Mind Control Programs. A great example of somebody who could have... when she awoke to the pain and struggles that she's been through and the awareness of this is what's happened to me, it could have been very easy for somebody in her scenario to... stay rooted in the identity of that pain and say, I'm a victim of this.
But she's somebody who is rooted in a deeper understanding of, I'm not the pain. I went through that, but I am a much deeper being than that. And she's rooted in love and in this infinite and eternal nature that we've been talking about. And that allows her to show up and talk about some of the darkness and her experiences, not from a place of, oh, pity me, but from a place of, hey, this is what's happening. I'm empowered. Let's discuss this and let's create some solutions.
Evan: You have to go through the journey of unpacking the pain, certainly, and really getting to know yourself on a deeper level. And there's no one timetable for that. But again, I was just mentioning about being too deep in the water. At some point, you've got to say, you know what, I'm ready to let go of it. I'm ready to find a different way, a different identity. And let's go from there, because there's a time and place, as much as we talk about victim identity, there's a time and place to recognize when somebody wronged you and say, I was victimized, right? You can't deny that archetype. It's a reality. But we tend to hold on to it because it's comfortable. It's familiar.
And that feels like the state of the world is a victimization to this system. And I think some people take it a step deeper and a victim to existence itself, a victim for existence. We are victims, right? And that Doomer mentality in a lot of ways, I think, can feed a lot of the narratives that we just have about who we are as humans.
[1:12:39] Soul Trap Thinking and the Life Between Lives
Brendan: Yeah, totally. And it's such a shame to me when people do start to have the metaphysical awakening, the spiritual awakening, that they get sidetracked into that rabbit hole of, oh, we're in a soul trap. And so right at the precipice, the brink of actually becoming empowered and self-aware at that level, they fall back into victimhood. Like you said, the comfort zone in the background of a lot of people is to feel hard done by and to feel victimized.
And life is frigging hard on earth. I'm not going to say it's not. It is brutal. And that's part of the reason we select this for a phase of the human, not human, but the soul's evolution. It chooses this planet at this time, because the grand scheme of things, right? It might be 100,000 years, it might be 200,000 years, but in terms of eternity, that's not long. So we play this game, we see what can I develop myself out of here? And I'm basing this not on my opinion.
Just look at one field of research called the Life Between Lives field of research, which was pioneered by a few different people, but Michael Newton's the most famous for it. And that's where we get the term, I think. And they now have accumulated. He passed away a few years back, but he has practitioners all around the world. And I just read a book that was quite recently published. They estimated they've done at least 50,000 sessions from people in 40 different countries around the world.
And what people need to hear, and I go into this in a lot of depth in my second book, which isn't out yet, but this year, hopefully, is that people, regardless of their cultural background, regardless of whatever religious belief system they bring into the clinic, when they're in the deeper theta state, regress into the consciousness state that can access that inter-life existence. They all say basically the same thing. They all describe the same type of experience, the same type of reality, the same world, the same kinds of encounters and dynamics with their souls and their soul groups and the people they've been known for eons. And they describe making arrangements with these other souls to come into the world and have a certain type of interaction, a certain type of dynamic that they can grow from, and the growth dynamic that we're in for the most part.
It's like we were talking about people needing to be squeezed and pinched and put into pain before they're willing to change. And so there are certain types of growth you can't have without pain and suffering. It just has to happen that way. And I can cite probably many examples, but one that I read recently was a woman who had, in the soul state, in that interlife realm, wanted to come into the earth to walk a certain path as a healer, a certain type of healer, but she needed to have a certain kind of experience early in her life of a certain type of trauma, and she needed to orchestrate that with somebody else. So another soul had to volunteer to be the one on the earth plane who would be the person to traumatize her in that particular way. And so she found a soul who was, as I said in the book, a soul who was capable of that type of thing, which opens up an interesting kind of can of worms. But they didn't elaborate on that.
Okay. So there are certain types of souls who seem to have a propensity towards essentially criminality. And then you get off into interesting tangents, which I won't go down, but talking about hell realms and people with no souls and this kind of stuff. But yes, there's a much bigger and vast sort of interdimensional picture that we're a part of here and a game that we're playing here. And if you lose sight of those other levels of it, then it's very easy to feel, yeah, hard done by.
[1:16:24] Acceptance and Escaping the Survival Trap
Evan: Yeah, absolutely. And I think it's interesting because I remember a couple of years ago, I was in a deep, deep meditation and I actually kind of got to witness the evolution of the soul journey, if you will, where I had experienced different lifetimes and different forms to where I was in different bodies. There were people in different lifetimes that I experienced where it's like, I recognize you. But you're not actually you. It was the soul of a person I know now in a different body. And I experienced different deaths and this and that. And I really put into perspective of me of the soul is on this journey. It has been on this journey for a long time and it is going to continue to grow and evolve and come here for the purpose of growth, and to experience itself.
And it's like somebody comes in and victimizes me or hurts me. Well, they agreed to do that, maybe because it's their karma. Maybe that's what they need to learn how to grow from them. Maybe that's setting them up for an immense awakening of some sort because they were the one who chose to victimize me, right? So it's like this idea, if we can accept the fact that this is all working for us at the end of the day and not happening to us, there's a deep level of acceptance, I think, that we can have for the nature of reality and things as they are.
And I don't think, obviously it's nice to work towards change. Like we were saying, take responsibility for the world as it is. And I think we should continue to work towards change. But when you have this bigger picture, it almost takes away the frantic flight that the system seems to put us into. Because from that space, we're not going to be able to accomplish anything. We might think we are. It's like if you drink six cups of coffee and you're just moving on a million miles an hour and there's, it feels like you're getting everything done, but nothing's actually getting done. You're just kind of scatterbrained and you're all over the place and you attend to everything and nothing at the same time, right? Yeah. And that's kind of what fight or flight does to us in a lot of ways.
It's like, what if I actually take a step back, observe it all and make conscious plans to move forward with conscious intent. That's when we're going to start to see the real growth and the real journey unfold. And I think we're just so used to being in fight or flight. And a lot of us feel threatened, rightfully so. There's a lot of suffering. There's a lot of hardship. And there's a lot of people who are barely getting by because of the nature of this system. Not even any fault of their own, necessarily.
Yeah. So I understand the fight or flight response. It's designed to keep us alive, but it's at the same time, when we continually find ourselves there, it's going to be very difficult to make changes. And I think as we move forward, there's only going to be an increase in suffering and an increase in almost tightening of the grip on people for that purpose, to increase the fight or flight. So the increase or. I would say decrease people's ability to make conscious change because they're so caught up in the need.
Brendan: I would say the only trap is that of survival, right? The only trap is that of going from point A to point B in a frantic state. That's the only trap that's here. Once you can escape that survival mode, well, then the world opens up in a lot of ways.
[1:20:01] Being Squeezed Into Awakening
Evan: Yeah, well said, well said.
Brendan: And that's it. That's 100% it. And maybe we need to be squeezed a bit more. Maybe the, because I think I'm on the same page as you. I feel like the next few years are. The system itself, at a conscious and an unconscious level, is going to be making the walls feel like they're closing in. It's going to squeeze a lot of people. A lot of people are going to be really, really struggling. I mean, s***, millions of people out there are one paycheck away from being homeless. And that's just going to probably, I don't like to put this out there, right, to reinforce it. But when I look at the masses of people who prefer to live in denial, I'm like, well. What is the solution here? You will not, you are not choosing to be conscious. You're choosing to be unconscious. So you need to be slapped. That's going to hurt. You need to be squeezed. It's not going to be fun.
[section omitted] We're pushed so far with the absurdity and the discomfort. Many people lost their businesses, their incomes, family members, suicide went through the roof, all this stuff. And they got pushed far enough. They finally started paying attention and questioning things and noticing things that they hadn't noticed before because they were in avoidance mode. And it was like my family is a classic example. I was the only one who was awake to what was going on 20 years ago. The only one who wanted to be awake to what was going on 20 years ago.
So, of course, I chose to walk the path, which has its own difficulties when you choose to walk a conscious path, because now if you're really dehypnotized, you don't belong in any of the games, in any of the systems. So it's like, well, s***, how do you make your way in the world? But it's much easier in many ways to just stay asleep. You take the blue pill, go back to eating a delicious steak in the restaurant and forget about reality. But at the end of the day, that's not why the soul chooses to have this experience for most people. For most people, they have pre-selected points of pain, events that happen to them, like maybe it's a car accident or whatever, that snaps them out of or gives them the opportunity to snap out of the trance and actually start to live a more authentic, conscious, intentional life.
[1:22:12] Purpose, Empowerment and the Ripple Effect
Evan: Right. Absolutely. And I think that's the snapping out of the trance. That feels like the theme up until now for the next few years. That's where it feels like my own. When I look at my own why and my own purpose and what is it that I'm here to do, I think we all, if we come back to ourselves and we dig deep enough, we can find that. It takes knowing yourself. What I thought five years ago about who I was, oh, there's vastly much more that I hadn't unpacked. So you start to get there, deeper levels. Part of what is the why for, let's say, podcasting? What is the why for certain creative expression, right? For me, it's okay, maybe somebody reads it, connects with it, and resonates with the emotion behind it, and it helps them awaken to deeper levels of who they are, right? And they can start to allow that to empower them in their own lives.
Brendan: Right.
Evan: And I think that's what we're here to do, we're here to empower one another. And I think even people who are maybe still operating fight or flight, and spreading a lot of their fear, whatever it may be, and they're still reacting to certain things, I think sometimes even that fight or flight reactions, there's a level of, they do it because it's a cry out, like, hey, somebody do something about this, and they want to empower somebody, right? So even then, I think people are, they're here to empower one another. And I think we're doing that slowly but surely, even the periods of darkness as we continue to go down it. I feel like it's setting us up for a greater level of depth of understanding on who we are.
And that type of awakening, it's already happening. It's happening within yourself. It's happening within me. I'm continuing to unpack more about myself and who I am. What disempowers me? What empowers me? Where are my own judgments and reactions lie? The programming is so deep that we have to continue to keep going into it. But because I'm doing it within myself, I'm not the only one. I know you're doing it within yourself. You're not the only one. And as we continue to move forward, that naturally just starts to happen within the people that we interact with, with other people within the community who are already doing it. And the ripple effect takes a while, certainly, but that energy is already being put out there and multiplying. So it's only a matter of time and conscious intent before I think people start to see the manifestations of that ripple effect on a larger scale.
The solutions don't happen necessarily overnight. And I don't say that to put a limiting cap on it, because if I say it, then I might create that and speak that into existence. Who knows? Maybe I'll wake up tomorrow and there's some radical change. I don't know. I don't want to limit that. But at the same time, I think patience is a big thing right now. Being patient, understanding, leaning into the darkness, saying, all right, it might be here for a little bit, but that's all right. Let me lean into it. Let me explore it. Let me be careful not to become it and just continue. Just continue to move forward, right? One foot in front of the other. And I don't know if that's the solution everybody wants to hear, but it's all I got at the very least.
Brendan: Well, no, nobody wants to hear that the solution is personal responsibility. Never. What do you mean I gotta figure it out? Come on.
Evan: Yeah.
Brendan: No, no, we don't want to do that. We want to point the finger and blame it on a convenient scapegoat. That's the solution.
Evan: Right.
Brendan: And that's so entrenched. That's such an entrenched psychological and social phenomenon. It's very hard to break some of these patterns, but people will get uncomfortable enough. I think a lot more people are going to get uncomfortable enough over the next few years that they will choose to start breaking some habits and patterns, because it's going to be so, so unbearable for certain people.
Because ultimately our choices lead us to where we are, right? And on a mass level, an individual level. And we've had systems in place that have formatted large numbers of people to think in certain ways and behave in certain ways. And so certain outcomes are just inevitable. And then we get stuck in the blinkered mindset. We get stuck in the habit of thinking that we're going to vote our way out of it, all this sort of stuff.
But yeah, personal accountability is the very unsexy. Unappealing solution to what we don't like about our life experience on every scale, whether it's corrupt government or whether it's the obnoxious neighbor next door whose dog craps in our front lawn, whatever it might be, it's still understanding your relationship to the field, the reality field. That's the key. And working with those dynamics is the key. As soon as you fall into resentment, judgment, moral indignation, outrage, you're playing the game and you're feeding the system.
[1:27:19] You Can't Force Accountability
Evan: Absolutely. I think a big thing I've been sitting with lately, too, is that you can take this on a personal, individual level for the relationships in your life around you, or on a bigger scale. You can't force accountability either. I think a lot of times we want to force people into, oh, you should do the right thing. Well, maybe people should, but that's not the way it always works.
And at some point, you can try and you can try and you can try and you can have the conversations and do everything right on our own end. But at some point I've just got to step away from it. Be like, all right, I'm going to let people wither in their misery, in their energy field, in their dissonance, whatever it may be.
And I mean, hey, you moved from Australia to Mexico. You decided, hey, let's let Australia do its thing. I can't force Australia to be accountable. But I mean, the same goes with relationships. The same goes with just people in our lives. If somebody wants to take accountability, I think we'll always welcome it, but we can never force that upon somebody. We can never force somebody to take responsibility because then it comes back to what are they actually doing it for? And if they're not doing it for themselves and to better themselves and to find forgiveness within themselves, then there's really no point. It kind of defeats the purpose in a way.
Brendan: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's not sustainable. If it's not coming from themselves, yeah, it won't be sustainable. It's like trying to drag his best mate to the gym so he can get in shape.
Evan: Yeah. But he doesn't want to go. I mean, how long are you going to be able to keep dragging his ass back there and back there until you finally, one of you gets sick of it?
Brendan: Right. Exactly. Well, if he sees that first bicep pump or something, he finally gets it, maybe that'll get him, but otherwise it ain't gonna work.
Evan: You're right.
[1:29:05] The Next Book
Evan: Well, Brendan, we're at about 90 minutes, man. We started right for the jugular and we only went a little bit deeper. So this has been good, man. So much to unpack and reflect on from this conversation. You said you have a book coming out? Do you think it's gonna be this year, you think?
Brendan: It will be. It'll probably be at least a few months away, but it's going to be this year.
Evan: Right on. Right on, man. I'm excited for it. Let's plan on doing maybe another podcast around the time your book's coming out. What area are you exploring? Would you say the central exploration is? And especially as you're wrapping up, I'm sure these are the areas you're exploring just yourself. So what's the theme? What are you deep diving?
Brendan: Well, we've touched on a few of the aspects. It's very much a very deep, thorough investigation into what happens when you die, different modes of consciousness separate from the body. What is the soul? What is the higher self? Reincarnation is a significant part of it.
But researching it and not falling into the usual kind of hypnotic rabbit holes that most people will end up in, and not just being another person who has a collection of interesting stories, because that stuff is all very important. But to take it another level so that there's a framework for making sense of things rather than just going, this happened. Wow. Amazing. I don't get it, but cool.
We are at the point where. There's really no one doing what I'm doing in this space. So I feel like it's a very unique sort of contribution in terms of the depth and the scope of it. So it's going to be a huge, huge book. Like the first one, when someone reads it, they will never be able to see things the same way again. That's what I'm kind of going for here.
The first book was one of those ones where I've had people tell me it actually completely changed the course of their life because they could not see things the same way anymore. And so book two is just a deeper level of that. We had one foot in the physical world and one foot in the non-physical world in book one. Book two is basically two feet in the non-physical world the whole time.
Evan: All right. That's what I like to hear, man. That's exciting. That's really exciting. I love it. Well, let's plan for another conversation around that, around the release, and we can dive even deeper. I think this is good. I guess in this conversation, we kind of had one foot in the physical world and one foot in the non-physical world. So we can dive at first in the non-physical as a segue to the next one.
[1:31:51] Where to Find Brendan's Work
Evan: But do you have anywhere you want to send the listeners and just continue to interact with your work? And if there are resources you'd want to send them to in the meantime before the book comes out?
Brendan: One of the places I could go is just the website, which is, and I'll send you links, brendandmurphy.com slash TGI if they want to go find the first book. My prices on my website are lower than Amazon prices and what have you. And I do have a link I'll send you for the waitlist to get on the waitlist for book two so I can let people know when it's out.
The other thing I would suggest is maybe Substack, where I'm publishing, basically all of my stuff is published for free. So if they go to substack.com slash at official Brendan Murphy, that'll take them to my Substack.
And we talked about evolution a lot and the process of what we're doing here. One of the things that I do, I have a program called Evolve Yourself, which helps people to work at a fundamental energy level without having to take on a daily practice or meditating or whatever. It's just I host ceremonies where we trigger a transformational process that has its own intelligence. So if they want to see the masterclass, so they get an explanation of that, it's evolveyourself.live.
[1:33:11] Closing Thoughts
Evan: All right. Right on. And I'll put links to all of that in the episode show notes. People can just scroll on down and it's right there. But awesome, man. I feel like this conversation, everything is in divine timing, but it was long overdue because I know it's been a couple of years since the last one. But it was a pleasure to have you back on, dude, and get to have another deep dive with you.
Brendan: Yeah, absolutely, man. I really appreciate it. And I've enjoyed it. It's nice to have that conversation back and forth where the wavelength is similar. So we can feed off of each other. And I appreciate that you're having me back and it'd be awesome to do something when the book's out and about. But yeah, man, keep up the great work. I think that you're really on point with everything that you're saying. And I can endorse your work and your podcast and what you're doing. I think it's really solid and your perspective is very balanced and grounded. So keep it up, man. It's great stuff.
Evan: I appreciate that, bro.
Brendan: Hey, coming from you, I was going to say that. I definitely appreciate that. The same goes right back to you.
Evan: So I'm going to have this out within the next week or so. I'm pretty quick with the turnaround. So I'll send it on over. You can send me the links if you want. I'll probably be able to find them, honestly. I mean, so I'll get all those links up and everything and I'll send it your way once it's out and we'll go from there, dude.
Brendan: Sweet, man. Awesome. Appreciate it. Yeah. Good to chat.
Evan: All right. Yeah, it was awesome. It was great to see you again. And like I said, let's plan it on again soon.
Brendan: I'm down. I'm down.
Evan: All right. Well, take care, man.
Brendan: All right, brother. You too.